Section Stuck, How To Get Out?

[Spartcom5]

I bought this obscure Biltwel pen the other day. Not the best of condition but good for me because I wanted to practice repairing on it. Great looking pen overall however the section is stuck quite good. Im using my spark plug pliers and a hairdryer to no avail. I only heated it up for about 3 minutes, should I go longer? Should I soak it in water instead? I am fearful because the last pen I tried removing the section cracked on me!

[PaulS]

a nib knocking block is essential - some of these older section feeds can be very stubborn to shift. After heating, seat the section over a suitable hole on the block and use an appropriate drift from the rear and start with moderate blows.

Gripping the nib/feed with pliers can be a recipe for disaster.

Edited August 5, 2019 by PaulS

[Spartcom5]

Oh sorry. I'm trying to get the section off of the barrel.

[PaulS]

no apologies needed, the mistake was mine - talking elsewhere about nib and feed removal and obviously a Freudian slip there on my part.

Nonetheless, section removal can start a nervous breakdown if not careful since they can sometimes take many attempts to shift from the barrel.

Stay with the hair dryer, but you really should be using purpose made section pliers otherwise damage to the pen may occur ………….. in their absence use some non-slip material - guys here use inner tube rubber - cut open to make flat and washed to remove any chalk etc. Use separate piece for holding both the section and barrel - but go slowly and have patience - they will part company eventually, or at least by Christmas. Good luck.

[Spartcom5]

Purpose made section pliers? What are those and where can i buy them?

 

I bought the spark plug pliers with the red grip on the end which seemed to be a common recommendation amongst pen forums

 

These are the ones to be exact! https://www.indy-pen-dance.com/Section-Pliers.html

Edited August 5, 2019 by Spartcom5

[northlodge]

I would suggest you avoid water.

 

Dry heat, and patience is the best option. keep at it, but be prepared to put it aside until another day.

 

Spark plug pliers is not really a term we use here in the Uk, but I understand what you are refering too. I purchased 2 in the US years back, one reasonably useful the other hopelessly shaped. Personally I took a decision a long time back not to use anypliers to grasp the barrel.

[PaulS]

they're fine, and as you suggest they are used by pen repairers, and I do have a pair though don't quite rate them as highly as some I bought few years back which apparently no longer available. It was just the spark plug reference that had me confused - obviously not a good evening on my part.

My criticism of this design is that there is some flex in the leverage when gripping tightly, though maybe that's not a bad thing. My others are more akin to a pipe wrench design - they have both small and wide mouth opening settings, and are made of a more substantial size steel that doesn't flex when gripping.

Just keep going and remember patience - the reason for difficulties in separation my be due to a previous owner having used shellac to seal these parts.

 

P.S. never grip a section where the feed has been removed, and don't grip a barrel more than a few mm. away from the internal location of section threads.

Assume this is a celluloid pen, so don't be tempted with a heat gun until you have more experience.

Edited August 5, 2019 by PaulS

[Spartcom5]

Do you have pictures of your tool? I'll keep at it and hope for the best!

 

I watched a video on youtube where the guy soaked the section in water for almost 2 days to get the job done...

Edited August 5, 2019 by Spartcom5

[PaulS]

picture attached. Some exaggeration on my part calling these 'Purpose made section pliers' - in truth I think they really are only a modified pipe wrench with heavy duty electrical rubber casing on the jaws, but it's true they don't flex under pressure. It's always feasible to have two pair - one holding the barrel and the other on the section. What I've noticed on the type you're using - since I do have some and have used them - is that the plastic coating on the jaws is thin and has a tendency to wear through, exposing the metal - something you don't want.

 

With mine, the rubber over the jaws can be replaced easily if necessary and the rubber doesn't wear through. The only down side I've noticed is that occasionally the part of the rubber jaw that contacts the pen does need a good clean with meths. or similar - this removes any build up of surface contaminant that might create less than 100% grip. I did try buying another pair of this pattern two or three years back (origin was the U.K.), but was told they are not longer being made.

Necessity being the m.o.i. you might try sourcing a small pipe wrench, remove the serrations on the jaws then attach some heavy duty rubber - don't see why it shouldn't work.

 

You can put any pen in water for 48 hours, but it's not recommended since it will often have serious side effects on the material the pen is made from - apart from perhaps P51 Lucite. Immersion in water is really to be avoided.

[siamackz]

dry heat will do it. I avoid section pliers (though I have two) unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. It is easy to use too much torque and crack pens - I have. Instead I use rubber grips for my fingers. Its important to use enough heat so that you arent stressing the section when trying to get it free. But of course too much heat is a problem too

[kestrel]

Patience, patience, patience.

Additional thoughts and cautions.

 

Some pens are made from a milk derived plastic called casein. Never put casein in water. It will swell, change shape, and do other nasty things and it will never be right again. Unless Ron can fix it.

 

I have dealt with some pens where ink worked its way into the section/barrel joint and is helping hold things together. I fill an old film can with water and set it in the basin of my ultrasonic. Then poke a proper size hole that will hold the pen in place via friction in a piece of corrugated cardboard that will bridge the basin. Push the pen through the hole so that the nib, section, and barrel up to the approximate edge of the section in the barrel are in the film can full of water. The hole in the cardboard will hold the barrel so that the tip of the nib doesn't touch anything solid. Then turn the ultrasonic on for several minutes. Several applications may be necessary. If there is any ink in the feed/section the film can will contain it. With any luck this may help free the section. Still use heat when you try to separate barrel and section. If you try this and it works be sure to remove the sac remnants immediately and dry the inside of the barrel because some water will creep up inside and start corroding levers and J bars.

 

If you don't have film cans you can use shot glasses, pill bottles, miniature syrup bottles from Cracker Barrel, etc. Or you could just let the ink stain the ultrasonic.

 

Worst case scenario? The section is glued in place. Not shellac, not sealant. Glue. I have a number of sub third tier pens with gorgeous plastic that have visible beads of glue extruded from the section/barrel seam. I am not familiar with Biltwel but it doesn't look as cheaply thriftily made as any of my problem babies.

 

Good luck with the pen.

[Spartcom5]

Well 40 minutes of twisting and heating I got it open! Cleaned all the old sac off and most of the shellac. However, I can see why it was so tough to get off. The sction just barely fits into the barrel. I flushed the nib and feed and for the time being I went to put the section back into the barrel...... it barely fits! It won't go back on all the way. I assume I need to heat it just to insert it back in? The other pens I have opened aren't anywhere near this tight of a fit.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Spartcom5

[PaulS]

you're right about heating for re-assembly - and it's something many of us either forget or think we don't need to do. I can hear the horrified gasps of air intake when I say …….. if it's an exceptionally tight connection then a very thin smear of silicone grease might help.

[siamackz]

+1 for reheating for reassembly. And honestly, I do put a little silicone oil to help slip it in. But its important to first clean the male and female threads - I soak those parts in water and use a dental pick

[pen lady]

Yes, it's always advisable to heat the barrel-mouth before re-inserting the section. As for silicone, I usually put the smallest amount on barrel threads if the section is not friction-fit. Sometimes those threads can feel pretty ''crunchy'' without some lube.

 

It's a good looking pen, is the nib 14 kt.? Well done!

Edited August 6, 2019 by pen lady

[eachan]

you're right about heating for re-assembly - and it's something many of us either forget or think we don't need to do. I can hear the horrified gasps of air intake when I say …….. if it's an exceptionally tight connection then a very thin smear of silicone grease might help.

Not quite a horrified gasp, Paul, but if you put grease on a friction fit section it's liable to come out rather too easily thereafter. Heat will expend any barrel anough to reinsert a section that came out of it.

[MCJordan]

Some pens are made from a milk derived plastic called casein. Never put casein in water. It will swell, change shape, and do other nasty things and it will never be right again. Unless Ron can fix it.

 

I have dealt with some pens where ink worked its way into the section/barrel joint and is helping hold things together.

If this isnt the right place to ask this, then please let me know where I should post it.

 

I have a similar problem with a Jinhao X-450 frankenpen I made with a Zebra G nib. It worked fine for a couple of days and I knew that I needed to readjust it. However, after 2-3 days of not using it, I tried to remove the nib & feed assembly and couldnt. It wasnt a problem when I created this hybrid, but now it wont budge. I soaked the section for about a week, changing the soapy water every day (small amount of dish soap). For the last 4 days I only used plain water. It still isnt budging.

I suspect that the Parker Quink somehow dried between the nib/feeder & section assy and am looking for an ultrasonic cleaner to help. (I cant find anything in stores yet, only online.)

 

1) (For future reference) Which pen casings are known to be made of casein?

 

2) Do you think that my newbie assessment of dried ink locking the section pieces together is plausible (even for just such a short time)?

 

3) Soap or no soap, Im finding an orangey/rust-coloured deposit on top of the nib WHILE submerged in water. (See photo.) And the water has a slight Amber colour. The deposit is easily washed off of the nib, but reappears on the same, localized position on the nib, regardless of whether the nib assembly is pointing up or down in the glass of water.

 

Any suggestions/insight is greatly appreciated.

Mike

[kestrel]

If this isnt the right place to ask this, then please let me know where I should post it.

 

I have a similar problem with a Jinhao X-450 frankenpen I made with a Zebra G nib. It worked fine for a couple of days and I knew that I needed to readjust it. However, after 2-3 days of not using it, I tried to remove the nib & feed assembly and couldnt. It wasnt a problem when I created this hybrid, but now it wont budge. I soaked the section for about a week, changing the soapy water every day (small amount of dish soap). For the last 4 days I only used plain water. It still isnt budging.

I suspect that the Parker Quink somehow dried between the nib/feeder & section assy and am looking for an ultrasonic cleaner to help. (I cant find anything in stores yet, only online.)

 

1) (For future reference) Which pen casings are known to be made of casein?

 

2) Do you think that my newbie assessment of dried ink locking the section pieces together is plausible (even for just such a short time)?

 

3) Soap or no soap, Im finding an orangey/rust-coloured deposit on top of the nib WHILE submerged in water. (See photo.) And the water has a slight Amber colour. The deposit is easily washed off of the nib, but reappears on the same, localized position on the nib, regardless of whether the nib assembly is pointing up or down in the glass of water. 529A4A47-ACEF-43A5-8239-118A2D982735.jpeg

 

Any suggestions/insight is greatly appreciated.

Mike

My few casein pens are all vintage, three Grieshabers and a nice BHR no name with a band around the end of the cap that is casein.

 

Without the pen in hand I can't be sure but that rust-coloured deposit sure looks like rust. Look for a scratch in the nib after you clean it. It is also possible (likely?) that the same thing is happening inside the section. I think I see the same crud in the breather hole. Oxidation of metal (with iron we call it rust) expands the metal and can wedge it into the section. I doubt an ultrasonic treatment would help that. Perhaps someone else will have a good idea.

[ac12]

Dang system lost my post, when I mis-hit a key . . . again!

 

Some pens require MULTIPLE heating cycles to get the body to let go of the section.

I have a few pens that I have been heating MANY times over the past several months, and still have not gotten the body to let go of the section.

 

It is a very delicate balance.

 

Too much heat, and you melt or ignite the body.

Been there, done that.

 

As @siam said, I would NOT use a plier of any kind.

The problem is, 1) a plier isolates your hand from the section, and 2) the longer the plier the greater the leverage.

So you can EASILY apply too much force, without realizing it, and shear the body.

Been there, done that, with just my hands, on a celluloid body.

IMHO, a plier is for those skilled enough to use it properly.

[Ron Z]

I suspect that if the nib is rusted, it is rusted up inside the section. Oh Joy. You may need pliers to coax it out. A couple of cycles in an ultrasonic may help.

 

 

 

Dang system lost my post, when I mis-hit a key . . . again!

 

Hit Cntrl-Z. The text that disappeared on you will magically reappear.