Xena and Gabrielle are heroines for the #metoo era

When New Zealand actress Lucy Lawless and American Renée O’Connor were chosen to play Xena, a reformed warlord in ancient Greece, and her companion Gabrielle, they had no idea the series would have such lasting appeal. But in a phone interview ahead of their Fan Expo Canada appearance they said the show’s underlying humane message still has relevance in the #MeToo era, and when women’s and other people’s rights are being challenged.

The people who will line up to see Lawless and O’Connor in Toronto on Saturday and Sunday likely agree. Lawless — who went on to other notable roles in shows like Battlestar Galactica, Spartacus and Ash vs. Evil Dead, and became a climate-change activist — and O’Connor, who has moved on to producing and directing her own projects, talked about their Xena sisterhood and why the series still resonates. This is an edited version of the conversation.

When Xena first started, what was your sense of exactly what you were getting yourself into?

O’Connor: I had no clue what I was getting myself into. I had no idea how popular the show would be. I knew they were looking for sidekick for Xena. I was pretty aware of the concept of the sidekick, the comedic element that she was bringing to the show. That was probably why in the very beginning I was a complete ham, I went for the jokes. Lucy calmed me down after a little while so it was good.

Lawless: No, but we were young and hungry, and nothing seemed too much until it was way too much. And we had a very similar work ethic … My feelings were that even though we went through a lot of stuff together, there was never really a cross word spoken. It was a pretty special time.

I’m thinking that for the mid-’90s to have a show with two female lead characters must have been sort of unusual, no?

O’Connor: Completely unusual. The last thing I could remember was Cagney and Lacey. So there was nothing that was relevant to my age that dealt with feminist ideas at all … The best I had growing up was watching Wonder Woman and being a fan of Bionic Woman.

When you look back on the show now are there things that you miss about it?

Lawless: The camaraderie. I’ve never worked on a show since that had quite the same sense of fun, just because of the environment we were in … It was colourful and kind of joyful, that’s the way I remember it. There were hard times as well. We did a lot of living through our 20s. I went through a divorce, there were breakups, all kinds of stuff … The job itself was so exhausting.

O’Connor: I haven’t been on another television show as a regular since Xena so I have nothing else to compare it to.

Lawless: It was incomparable as a sort of family.

Are there things that you get asked about a lot when you go to conventions?

O’Connor: When are they going to do a movie and will Lucy do her war cry?

Lawless: For a long time I wouldn’t just do it; now I do it immediately, get it over with.

Do the fans give you a sense of why the show means so much to them?

Lawless: There’s a commonality in all of us; at times in our lives we feel the outsider. And for people who feel marginalized through disability, through being a minority, whether that is ethnic or gender identity or sexuality or whatever, they grabbed very hard onto that message of self-worth that was carried through the show … It’s just a given that you are innately valuable.

O’Connor: I feel like we get too much credit for the message and all the work that was put into it.

Lawless: For a long time Renee and I very much had that theory of gosh, we’re just the public face of so many people’s hard work. Then I was forced to confront my own part in it when I was travelling with a journalist; she was interviewing fans in Italy … There is something intrinsic to you and me that was part of the magic. We weren’t the whole thing, obviously … but there is something about you and me and our friendship that informed the show, informed the message. I don’t know what it is, but I think a lot of love went into the show and people took a lot of love out of it.

Another thing people talk about when they talk about the show is how it was an early example of a community of fans being built online.

Lawless: Our fan base was very computer literate. They connected fast, especially the gays and lesbians here … We were shooting Episode 8 and (a writer) from the Village Voice did a big article about these two new lesbian icons and you and I were laughing. We were like “What?” … It never occurred to us. We were going on being our regular selves wearing skimpier costumes. You know that line in the first episode? “I’m not the little girl my parents want me to be”? That was the (Xena and Orange Is the New Black writer/producer) Liz Friedman lesbian line. All the producers knew what they were doing.

O’Connor: People still talk about that line, Lucy, you’re right. … It’s a really interesting time to have to figure out are you going to support equality or not in all forms … It’s very disturbing now to see that challenged. It’s also intriguing because I never apologize for being a feminist. Now you really have to learn how to approach people in a way that they’ll listen and not just be shut down … You just have to find a way to communicate, you can’t always just do it with sword and staff.

Lawless: I’m a bit sword and staffy. I guess I say what I think, damn the torpedoes … I came from a country where women first got the vote and I had five brothers, and I didn’t think that I was inferior to them in any way, shape or form. And I didn’t realize the need for feminism, I thought that was an artifact from the ’60s … It’s now that I probably say I’m a feminist and … that I want equality for all, for the good of my sons too … We always thought the world was going to get more open, more liberal, more generous and it’s not true; it contracts.

Would it be fair to say that the world still needs Xena today?

Lawless: God, yes … I think there should be a Xena movie. The need for Xena and Gabrielle to be out there in the #MeToo generation is huge. It’s the most perfect, iconic relationship to have out there … The fact that we’re still recognized and wanted in places around the world shows there’s definitely a market for it.

O’Connor: Everyone (at the fan conventions) has their own story that relates to the show and … they want to share that connection and it’s really nice.

What made Toronto one of the conventions you wanted to do?

O’Connor: I wanted to see Lucy.

Lawless: It’s our chance to get together.

Your friendship, it sounds like it has endured since the days of the show.

Lawless: It’s a sisterhood. It’s beyond friends, forged in the heat of battle.

O’Connor: I can just see us now in our 70s cackling away.

Lawless: It must be just terrible to work with somebody in a role like that if you didn’t have 100 per cent love and respect with that person. I can’t imagine had I done it with anyone else.

O’Connor: I think they would have killed me off.

Lawless: No, they wouldn’t. Rob Tapert (Xena’s co-creator and Lawless’s husband) doesn’t kill anybody off unless they’re a pain in the ass. Even if I hated you it wouldn’t have mattered. You were good onscreen.

Is there anything about the show you can share that’s lived on in your memories all these years?

O’Connor: My mind immediately went to the very last episode and how I can literally put myself back into some of those night scenes where there were fires going off …

Lawless: There were rain machines and it was freezing. I remember the times that we were cold and wet because there were a lot of them … Every time I got crucified it was in some s—tty location that was really cold. It’s my least favourite way to die.

O’Connor: I forgot how much humour there was in the show. Lucy, my kids are just starting to watch it here and there.

Lawless: I haven’t watched it in donkey’s years. My boys don’t want to watch it. They find it a bit embarrassing their mother being on the TV. My dogs are quite interested though.

Fan Expo Canada runs Thursday to Sunday at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. See fanexpocanada.com for information.